Running Against History
Defector sees Kim's regime as increasingly brittle
Far East Economic Revew
October 15, 1998
H wang
Jang Yop, 75, is the highest-ranking North Korean official to have defected. The principal
architect of Pyongyang's ideology of juche, or self-reliance, he escaped in February 1997
to South Korea, where he now lives under Seoul's protection. For 38 years prior to his
defection, Hwang had mostly worked side by side with the communist north's former
"Great Leader" Kim Il Sung, and his son, Kim Jong Il. In an exclusive, late
September interview with Olaf Jahn, Asia correspondent for Germany's Axel Springer Group,
Hwang provided a rare look at North Korean elite politics, the army and Kim's absolute
grip on the populace. Excerpts:
Four years after the death of his father, Kim Jong Il occupies his nation's highest
post as chairman of the National Defence Committee, but not the position of state
president, which has been abolished. Is this a sign of weakness?
On the contrary. Kim Jong Il has practically been the sole strongman in North Korea
since 1974. So, when Kim Il Sung died, Kim Jong Il had already had the real power for 20
years. He didn't need the title of state president. And as state president he would have
to attend public events. That is something he doesn't like. One reason that he tries to
appear in public as seldom as possible might be in order to maintain his mystique.
Then is Kim Jong Il responsible for the deadly assault in 1983 on South Korean cabinet
members in Rangoon and for the bombing of a South Korean passenger plane in 1987?
Absolutely! There is no doubt about it. Every single mission of every spy has to be
approved by him so the major attacks definitely had his hand behind them. This man is a
terrorism genius.
What kind of man is Kim Jong Il? Is he ill?
Kim Jong Il is healthy. He can think and make decisions very clearly and very quickly.
He is absolutely impatient and wants to see his orders implemented immediately . . . Since
his youth he has admired Adolf Hitler for his capability to totally control his people.
Like Hitler, he guards his power jealously.
He typically doesn't like to function in public or with institutions. He does everything
secretly, behind closed doors, together with a handful of his closest advisers. That's why
he loves terror and violence. He does not convince people, but rather pushes his
conviction through by force. As for his capabilities . . . he has destroyed the
achievements of his father, he has ruined the economy, the people are starving. So as a
leader he has failed. But still he manages to keep the system running. That means, he is
able to tie the elite [consisting] of powerful party members and military leaders to
himself and to control them.
What is the army's role today?
Kim Jong Il has strengthened the position of the army very much. Today his power is
dependent mainly on the army, which is the prime example for all other organizations in
North Korea. In fact, he has transformed the former dictatorship of the party into a
military-dictatorship. That suits his penchant for force and orders. At the same time, the
army does not have much political influence.
How well-informed is North Korea's political elite about international events? Where
and how are political decisions made?
The elite consists of fighters of the partisan war and their families, members of the
Kim family and very loyal party workers. The inner circle of this elite is well-informed.
These people are allowed to visit other countries. They have access to TV and radio, and
to five special magazines which cover world events. They are especially well-treated by
the system and enjoy a very good life. For that reason they back the regime. Kim Jong Il
himself has access to several international TV and radio channels. In addition, he gets a
special newspaper which is printed only for him. Having read it, he passes it on to his
closest aides. The elite outside the inner circle gets only very little information about
what happens abroad.
Important decisions are made only by Kim Jong Il. His ideas and proposals are sent to the
party, which implements them into plans. Concrete plans are submitted for his approval.
How and where do the elite live?
They are dispersed throughout 10 guarded ghettos. Kim Jong Il has an area to himself.
Underground tunnels lead from there to the other ghettos. This way Kim can reach nearly
every building without being seen. By the way, there's a 40-kilometre-long tunnel system
surrounding Pyongyang. It will provide shelter in case of war. In peace time, it provides
a passageway primarily for Kim Jong Il.
To what extent are the elite watched?
Almost all the time. I myself was watched in my office and at home, in the kitchen,
the bathroom, the garden; there were bugs and video cameras practically everywhere. By the
way, this equipment came from the stash of the former East German state security service.
A technician warned me once: "Mr. Hwang, it would be best if you said nothing
here."
How did the elite react to communism's collapse in the East Bloc at the end of the
1980s?
It came initially as a great shock, of course. But later it was interpreted as the
result of weak socialism . . . but North Korea, armed with its ideology of juche, did not
need to worry. Suddenly it was said: We have to strengthen our dictatorship. So after the
collapse, the secret services were drastically strengthened. Today there is a secret
service for the military, one for the party and a general secret police. This surveillance
system encompasses the entire population, from the top to the smallest district. Special
emphasis is placed on the universities where all disciplines are saturated with
secret-service moles.
The former East Germany had niches of criticism--for example, within the church. Is
there anything comparable in North Korea?
There are no niches. Although, officially, freedom of religion exists, and is
theoretically guaranteed by law, we don't even have a real church. Two churches were built
for the World Youth Games in 1986 in Pyongyang but only for public-relations purposes.
Those that really go there are state-ordered "believers." If someone really
wanted to attend church, or declared allegiance to it, he would be shot within five
minutes. The people should only believe in Kim Jong Il.
You describe the awful poverty in North Korea. Are famine revolts possible?
No, something like that could never happen.
Even if tens of thousands die from malnutrition or inadequate medical care?
Even then. You must understand that the North Korean system is much more brutal and
inhumane than Stalinism. It totally and completely controls the soul of the ordinary
citizen. Their thoughts have been bombarded for decades with propaganda about the heroism
of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il . . . Most of these people are simply incapable of thinking
about being critical. Anyway, anyone who tries to organize a gathering will be shot.
On what does the leadership in North Korea base its ideology?
At the end of the day the "Leader" is the source of life of the individual.
Because he lives, they live. He is like God, or like the sun. The people really believe
that . . . Every crisis is viewed as a natural catastrophe or as a result of a malicious
U.S. policy.
What about reports that critics of the establishment were imprisoned in gulags.
. . . If they weren't shot. Yes, there are two types of prisons. Members of the upper
echelons of the elite are detained in labour camps, ordinary people are sent to
non-arable, isolated areas in the middle of nowhere where they are left to survive on
their own. In North Korea there are 10 such areas and approximately 30,000
"prisoners" living in each. They are, of course, never shown to the human-rights
groups.
Is any change possible?
Certainly, but as is said among party members, the army must make the first move.
[Although it gets preferential treatment, the military] still has its problems. The
soldiers, for instance, don't have proper uniforms. The army has too little nourishment
and demands an ever-increasing portion of state food reserves. The decline in troop morale
is a big worry in Pyongyang. Another catalyst for change could be the dissatisfaction of
the normal population. Despite all their faith in Kim, their hunger has made them
unsettled. If only somehow they could be convinced that their predicament was due to
governmental mistakes and not a natural catastrophe, perhaps change could come from the
bottom up. The attempt to bring such information to the masses must come from South Korea.
What would happen if Kim Jong Il were to die suddenly?
The system is not prepared for it. It would force immediate political change. Not only
that, in reality only maybe 20% of the elite really stands behind Kim. The others . . .
would try to take the chance for change. Many of them have already been hit by the
repercussions of the current economic crisis.
Does the elite really perceive a military threat from South Korea or the U.S.?
No, they are convinced that North Korea cannot be attacked, even by big powers . . . After
the Soviet Union and China were lost as allies, North Korea has become politically and
mentally independent. War scenarios serve only the propaganda machine. On the other hand,
North Korea still believes that it could conquer South Korea--should the Americans ever
leave the peninsula. This withdrawal is one of Pyongyang's most important goals in all its
international negotiations.
Were you surprised by Pyongyang's recent launch of a missile across Japan?
No, not at all. This kind of three-stage rocket has been in existence for quite some
time. I think in 1994 its development was well under way. To my knowledge, the technicians
had already solved the problem of solid-fuel for those rockets by that time. [The North
Koreans waited five days before explaining the launch was not of a military rocket]
probably because they first wanted to be sure that the satellite actually reached its
orbit and that it was sending the planned propaganda signals.
How do you see the system today?
It will fall. The hardening of the dictatorship and the downturn of the economy are
indicators of impending decline. I don't know how long Kim Jong Il can hold on, but he's
running against history. That's why he'll fail.
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Added October 10, 1998